Most romance heroines are syrupy sweet. There's like a romance rule and everything... Thou shall not have a mean or bitchy or otherwise unworthy romance heroine for she does not deserve the love of a HOT, sexy hero. Well, when I wrote my first romance novel, I had no idea that there was a rule. And my first heroine was really bitchy until my editor (I love you Deatri) told me that I had to tone her down and make her likable. So I did (I hope). And that's when I realized that as much as I embrace my inner bitch and encourage others to do the same, I can't have a true bitch... a real bitch... a-sho-nuff-take-no-stuff-bitch as the heroine in my romance novels. Bummer... So no more bitches...
But what about bad girls? Now, I know I could get away with naughty girls in an erotic romance. But I'm talking about bad girls. I'm talking about a chick that might have done wrong in the past and she's a little sorry for it... or at least sorry she got caught. LOL. Or a girl who might break the rules, for a good cause or a good reason of course, but she's a rule breaker nonetheless. She might lie or steal, you know... She's just not the perfect sweet little heroine we're used to seeing in romance. Would this ever work in a romance novel? I'm thinking only if it was a part of her past. What do you all think?
I realized after I finished the first novel in my Hightower series that two of my heroines, the two that will fall in love with my cops, are what some would consider bad girls... Their stories are so much fun to write. Their histories are so rich and they bring all kinds of emotions to the story. I love emotional writing almost as much as I love emotional reading. And after reading countless books where the hero is the one doing the big apology at the end, it is so cool to think that I could flip the script on all that with the right bad girl...
But how bad is too bad? What are the limits? What would turn you off in a heroine? Do you like your heroines a little naughty? Is syrupy sweet more your style? Who are some of your favorite bad girls in fiction? What about real life? I have to say, I enjoyed writing about my first true bad girl. The heroine in Protect and Serve had me on edge. My editor might make me tone her down by the time readers see her... but she was something else for a minute... I just hope readers will still like her... we'll see... What do you all think about bad girls in romance?
much love and peace,
Gwyneth
That's a good question. I put a bad girl in YOUR ALIBI, and so far, people are really responding well to her. I haven't gotten a single bad review or a bad reader comment yet.
ReplyDeleteGive it time, right? Addie definitely qualifies as a bad girl. She's sexually liberated, doesn't need a relationship to get down, and she'll do unethical things to keep her family together, no question. I think readers are probably pretty tired of the same old sweetness and light Mary-Sue Healswithherhoohoo.
I think the important point is what screenwriters call Save the Cat. If you're going to have an antiheroine you need her to show her soft side early on, do something that puts the reader firmly in her court. There's a difference between "bad" and "cruel / pointlessly mean." Somebody who's just a straight up razor-edged bitchface with no redeeming qualities isn't going to fly. But someone who makes mistakes and maybe isn't even sorry because it was FUN, but they love their family fiercely? I think the world is ready for that heroine.
I know I am.
Same here, Gwyneth. The heroine of my first romance (not the one that sold) was a total bitch. She was just plain mean to the hero. I went through several revision to tone her down, but maybe she still needs some work. That would explain why the book still hasn't sold. :P
ReplyDeleteI love a bad girl in romance, particalarly some reasoning for embracing her badness...bad girls are fun to write and to read about...people get real twisted about 'heroines' though...
ReplyDeleteLove and Blessings...
angelia
Ann(ie) ~ Now I really can't wait to read Your Alibi. Drasted deadlines... "But someone who makes mistakes and maybe isn't even sorry because it was FUN, but they love their family fiercely? I think the world is ready for that heroine." I agree! This is what I'm hoping for/counting on anyway...
ReplyDeleteFarrah ~ LOL. We have something in common! Yay! I had to tone Alicia down a lot and I did it kicking and screaming. My editor was like "she's a bitch" and I was like "I know cool, right? Don't you just love her? I do." LOL. But I think I was able to keep some of her bitchiness and still make her likable even loveable... I just haven't written any more bitchy heroines... too bad... so sad... I hope your bitch sells soon. I want to read it. :-)
Angelia ~ I like a bad girl in romance too... Hey, bad girl and bitches need love too... ;-)
Gwyneth
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDelete"Bad girls" need some lovin' too. So, I wanna read about them.
ReplyDeletePaz (anxious to read Protect and Serve)
Thanks, Paz! As a slightly reformed bad girl ;-) I like to read about them myself...
ReplyDeleteGwyneth
I'm with Save the Cat on this one. If the Heroine's bad, I need to see a hint of a redeeming virtue on the first page. Besides liking a heroine, I have to respect her. A lot of the bad stuff women do is just plain stupid. I can't respect stupid women because stupid women are powerless women, regardless of how they mouth off.
ReplyDeleteBULLETPROOF SOUL by Michelle Buckley is a good example of this well done. Michelle did a fantasic job of complicating the heroine, but there was always this underlying current which told the reader this girl was really trying in life. Even when she blundered, this made me want her to eventually succeed in life and love.
I have to agree with Ann on this one, I can handle a bad girl if she has some redeeming qualities and a "soft" side. Since I don't like or associate with bitchy women in my own life, I never consider about writing about them. That doesn't mean the heroine has to be syrupy sweet, just a decent woman.
ReplyDeleteKimber An and Chicki ~ I would never have a character doing bad things without good reasons, at least not without having them rationalize in their own mind why they need to do something that's wrong.
ReplyDeleteI think for me when the bad girl is done really well our ideas about what is considered "bad" are complicated and we as readers get to question our own rush to judgement. Now some people will miss this because their virtues are cut and dry, you never lie etc. But most readers will be able to go with the flow, weigh all the circumstances and understand and have empathy... even if they still think it was wrong.
The funny thing is, I think we already do this a lot in romance with the heroes. We give him all kinds or leeway to mess up and get it right in the end. So, all I'm saying is maybe, just maybe we can have a woman who needs a little wiggle room to grow too... We'll see...
And Kimber An... "A lot of the bad stuff women do is just plain stupid. I can't respect stupid women because stupid women are powerless women, regardless of how they mouth off." I'm not sure I agree with this one. At least I think we would be able to offer contridicting examples on each side. Like I there are some really smart, really powerful bad women that I wouldn't want to mess with... I wouldn't want to write about them either... I do think that we can talk about some of the stupid things women do in the name of love or to please their man, but I don't know that I would call that being bad. I guess its all semantics... LOL...
Gwyneth
I enjoyed reading about the totally self-absorbed Becky Bloomwood in the Shopaholic books (at least the first two) because she had such endearing qualities. I admit that after that it got less endearing and more on my nerves; how many scrapes can one get into because they're such a ditz - but that's a column for another day.
ReplyDeleteI do like to read about people with faults, it makes them more real to me. I think that's one reason I got burned out on the earlier romances. All those people were just too perfect. The genre has really come into its own from the days when most were the same old story, and I think that's wonderful!
The nice thing about a bad girl is seeing her get hers . . . and then having her meet the man of her dreams. I enjoyed Francis Ray's Any Rich Man Will Do about a conniving, conceited b*tch who sank down to below zero, which set the stage for her to be discovered (and greatly mistrusted) by the hero. In my own book Straight to the Heart (2004), I had the heroine, a not-very-nice person when featured in earlier novels, lose her job, get dumped by her boyfriend, and then lose her hair . . . but then her luck started to change.
Will check out Ann's Your Alibi. Farrah, give your heroine some redeeming qualities. I do enjoy this type of theme.
Bettye
Bettye ~ Thanks for chiming in. I'll tell you, the constraints of the romance genre do have me considering changing genres. I do love a love story and I love writing about love and relationships, but perfect people who always do the right thing start to weigh on my creativity... Especially when it comes to my heroines... I love the examples you gave. I think that having the bad girl hit ground zero is one way that readers become more open to having her get some love. LOL.
ReplyDeleteGwyneth
I am going to go out on a limb here, but when havent I...we hold women to differnt standards than men, even in books...readers gobble up the bad boy with relish, but when it's a woman...she had better be how the scripr says women should be, to that I say...please...women are as complicated, diverse and might I say in some case as bad as the boys...and having as much fun...how can one be redeemed if one has never been bad?
ReplyDeleteLove and Blessings...
angelia
Angelia ~ You make some great points. It's like that old song by Betty Wright where she says, "Girls, you can't do what the boys do no and still be a lady..." She may be right. But all I'm saying is can we allow a romance heroine to mess up a little bit... not even as big as some of the things we allow romance heroes the space to do (okay, maybe almost as big...) but can we do that sometimes? I'd sure like to read more stories where it's the woman giving that big, 'baby I'm sorry, see what had happened was...' speech in the end. LOL.
ReplyDeleteAmen...and yes we can do that sometimes, we had better...
ReplyDeleteangelia
I don't mind Bad Girls in romance, if I understand their motivation and they uncover some redeeming quality by the end.
ReplyDeleteThere are plenty of examples. I too enjoyed Ms. Ray's Any Rich Man Will Do. Then there's one of the four main characters in Victoria Christopher Murray's A Sin and a Shame, although this is probably considered more women's fiction. And there were definitely bad girls in Erick Gray's It's Like Candy, although that is probably considered street lit. Okay, maybe not as many in pure romance as I thought...
Thought of one...Scarlett O'Hara. How could I forget her?
ReplyDeleteScarlett O'Hara
ReplyDeleteYes, Patricia, she's like the uber-bad girl of romance. LOL. I'm with you, as long as there is some redeeming qualities I'm willing to go with the flow. It's interesting that most of your examples come from mainstream fiction, that's where we tend to be more relaxed as readers with what we allow characters to get away with... Mainstream fiction is looking more and more tempting...
Gwyneth
Oooh, make me a list, will you? I'd love to buy some books with bad girls in them. I wrote down STRAIGHT TO THE HEART and ANY RICH MAN WILL DO.
ReplyDeleteWhat else y'all got for me?
Rose Purdue in Roses are thorns,Violets are true is a bad girl. The girl you love to hate; but her twin balanced it out.
ReplyDeleteI like reading about a character that does the unconventional.
Ann(ie) ~ A list is a great idea.
ReplyDeleteShelia ~ Thanks for letting us know about this. Now I really have to make the time to read your second novel, Roses Are Thorns .
Gwyneth
Gwyneth, what a really great discussion topic. I agree with you and Patricia W. If the motivation for the Bad Girls of Romance is empathetic and she has some redeeming characteristic, then I can embrace her with hesitation. After all, some of my favorite people in real life have a lot of attitude. LOL!
ReplyDeleteAfter all, some of my favorite people in real life have a lot of attitude.
ReplyDeleteLOL. I hear you on that one Patricia. I feel the same way. I want to read about some women who remind me my girls (and a little of myself, truth be told) finding true love and HEA. I'll still read about the super sweet always do the right thing girls. But just give me a little flavor every now and then, spark it up, mix it up... :-)
Gwyneth
Excellent question. I don't like sugary sweet, never have. Reading alot of historicals I have read alot of heroines who are spies, thieves, renegades, etc. Of course the key is they have a very good motivation. (Steal to get family money, or its the family business to which at some point they realize is wrong, etc.).
ReplyDeleteBut a true "bad girl" hmmm I don't know. Oddly enough in erotica I don't like them as much as in a regular old romance. I think as long as there is a motivation for them to be bad (read not a bitch) them I'm cool with it. I prefer it.
KD ~ Yeah, motivation is the key. That's the tricky part though because it is also very subjective. For some, there will never be a good enough reason for a heroine to do XY or Z...And for others they'll be able to roll with the punches... We'll see...
ReplyDeleteGwyneth
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